"Like" AX84 on facebook

'ax84 wiki'
Author:ogorir (registered user: 1700 posts )
Date: Sun, May 13th, 2007 @ 18:04 ( . )

In recent light if Zoe's (hopefully brief) departure, I think the search needs to be revamped a bit.

I've always found the search terribly inefficent. you can refer to the same thing in amp building many different ways with many different abbreviations. most of the time, even if you've tried all conceivable ways to say something, you end up weeding through many posts of "where can I find this?" before you find what you're actually searching for.

it seems to me that if the results of certain important discussions were posted someplace that was easy to find ( like the jalapeno tonestack, the melissa schematics and other popular topics) the search function would be a lot easier to use.

or possibly a user-editable links page?

perhaps maybe just an area that useful posts could be moved to in the bbs? possibly make them uneditable?

Just thinking aloud.



-- REPLY: [With No Quote] --- [With Quoted Text]

'ax84 wiki'
Author:Zoe N Iain (registered user: 8138 posts )
Date: Sun, May 13th, 2007 @ 18:37 ( . )

On 05/13/2007 @ 18:04, ogorir wrote :
In recent light if Zoe's (hopefully brief) departure,


Dunno how brief it'll be, but I'll be back. There's other stuff getting in the way at present, mainly work and family stuff.

Thanks for all the kind words from everybody, too. I appreciate it. You guys are still my mates, don't worry ;-}

Catchya in a while.

-- REPLY: [With No Quote] --- [With Quoted Text]

'ax84 wiki'
Author:Arthur B (guest: search)
Date: Sun, May 13th, 2007 @ 22:37 ( . )

I think FAQ does adress this to some extent, but yes, an online encyclopedia would be nice.

-- REPLY: [With No Quote] --- [With Quoted Text]

'ax84 wiki'
Author:Stephen Keller (registered user: 6256 posts )
Date: Mon, May 14th, 2007 @ 01:10 ( . )

I've been thinking about this problem for quite awhile now. I'd be willing to code up a thread repository. Sort of a collection of important threads. It could be something as simple as a bookmark page, with some mechanism for adding threads and descriptions to it.

What sorts of features would you like to see in such an app?

Stph

-- REPLY: [With No Quote] --- [With Quoted Text]

'ax84 wiki'
Author:Arthur B (guest: search)
Date: Mon, May 14th, 2007 @ 01:21 ( . )

On 05/14/2007 @ 01:10, Stephen Keller wrote :
: What sorts of features would you like to see in such an app?
:
: Stph
:
--



A search feature, of course. :D I think a logically set up index would also help as well. Will these threads be part of the AX84 BBS or on a completely different system?

-- REPLY: [With No Quote] --- [With Quoted Text]

'ax84 wiki'
Author:Stephen Keller (registered user: 6256 posts )
Date: Mon, May 14th, 2007 @ 01:56 ( . )

On 05/14/2007 @ 01:21, Arthur B wrote :
: A search feature, of course. :D I think a logically set up index would also help as well. Will these threads be part of the AX84 BBS or on a completely different system?
--

I'm thinking more along the lines of a topical index to the BBS that augments the search feature we already have. Unless Chris wants to host it on www.ax84.com, I would have to put it a different system.

Stph

-- REPLY: [With No Quote] --- [With Quoted Text]

'ax84 wiki'
Author:Chris Hurley (moderator: 7843 posts )
Date: Mon, May 14th, 2007 @ 13:32 ( . )

On 05/14/2007 @ 01:56, Stephen Keller wrote :
On 05/14/2007 @ 01:21, Arthur B wrote :
: : A search feature, of course. :D I think a logically set up index would also help as well. Will these threads be part of the AX84 BBS or on a completely different system?
: --
:

: I'm thinking more along the lines of a topical index to the BBS that augments the search feature we already have. Unless Chris wants to host it on www.ax84.com, I would have to put it a different system.
:
: Stph
--



If someone has a good idea for how to solve the problem, I'm open to looking at it.

-- REPLY: [With No Quote] --- [With Quoted Text]

'ax84 wiki'
Author:John Hynes (registered user: 2630 posts )
Date: Mon, May 14th, 2007 @ 13:35 ( . )

On 05/14/2007 @ 13:32, Chris Hurley wrote :
On 05/14/2007 @ 01:56, Stephen Keller wrote :
:
On 05/14/2007 @ 01:21, Arthur B wrote :
: : : A search feature, of course. :D I think a logically set up index would also help as well. Will these threads be part of the AX84 BBS or on a completely different system?
: : --
: :

: : I'm thinking more along the lines of a topical index to the BBS that augments the search feature we already have. Unless Chris wants to host it on www.ax84.com, I would have to put it a different system.
: :
: : Stph
: --
:
:

:
: If someone has a good idea for how to solve the problem, I'm open to looking at it.
--



If adding controls to Wiki to only allow certain people to add to it is out of the question, how about Faq-O-Matic? It already has that sort of functionality built in.

-John

-- REPLY: [With No Quote] --- [With Quoted Text]

'ax84 wiki'
Author:Chris Hurley (moderator: 7843 posts )
Date: Mon, May 14th, 2007 @ 14:52 ( . )


: If adding controls to Wiki to only allow certain people to add to it is out of the question, how about Faq-O-Matic? It already has that sort of functionality built in.



I'd like to build something in that can integrate with the site, but that isn't stricly necessary- just highly desirable.


-- REPLY: [With No Quote] --- [With Quoted Text]

'ax84 wiki'
Author:John Hynes (registered user: 2630 posts )
Date: Mon, May 14th, 2007 @ 15:34 ( . )

On 05/14/2007 @ 14:52, Chris Hurley wrote :

: : If adding controls to Wiki to only allow certain people to add to it is out of the question, how about Faq-O-Matic? It already has that sort of functionality built in.
:
:

:
: I'd like to build something in that can integrate with the site, but that isn't stricly necessary- just highly desirable.
:
:
--



So you'd like to, for instance, expnad the search functionality to contain links to FAQs based on keywords? Seems like that should be too hard. Maybe even add a pull-down to the search page filled out with headers to sections of the FAQ - perhaps phrases like:

I'm searching for information about:
- Biasing
- Tone Stacks
- Lead Dress

etc.

-John


-- REPLY: [With No Quote] --- [With Quoted Text]

'ax84 wiki'
Author:Chris Hurley (moderator: 7843 posts )
Date: Tue, May 15th, 2007 @ 09:33 ( . )


:
: I'm searching for information about:
: - Biasing
: - Tone Stacks
: - Lead Dress


It might be possible to have the BBS search also look in articles/faq entries and present those items as well.

-- REPLY: [With No Quote] --- [With Quoted Text]

'ax84 wiki'
Author:Zaphod (guest: search)
Date: Mon, May 14th, 2007 @ 07:57 ( . )

The idea of a wiki has been discussed before. But the problem came up about how we deal with conflicting technical viewpoints. And how to keep the audiophools out. :o)



-- REPLY: [With No Quote] --- [With Quoted Text]

'ax84 wiki'
Author:Joris (guest: search)
Date: Mon, May 14th, 2007 @ 12:10 ( . )

What is wrong with conflicting technical viewpoints? I'll bet we can found those too with the search function ;-)

-- REPLY: [With No Quote] --- [With Quoted Text]

'ax84 wiki'
Author:Stephen Keller (registered user: 6256 posts )
Date: Mon, May 14th, 2007 @ 12:22 ( . )

On 05/14/2007 @ 12:10, Joris wrote :
What is wrong with conflicting technical viewpoints? I'll bet we can found those too with the search function ;-)
--

The problem was not the conflicting view points, but a wiki's ability to allow competing editors with conflicting view points to alter each other's text. IIRC, there was concerning the thing might turn into the online equivalent of a hissy fit.

Stph

-- REPLY: [With No Quote] --- [With Quoted Text]

'ax84 wiki'
Author:Chris Hurley (moderator: 7843 posts )
Date: Mon, May 14th, 2007 @ 13:33 ( . )

On 05/14/2007 @ 12:22, Stephen Keller wrote :
On 05/14/2007 @ 12:10, Joris wrote :
: What is wrong with conflicting technical viewpoints? I'll bet we can found those too with the search function ;-)
: --
:

: The problem was not the conflicting view points, but a wiki's ability to allow competing editors with conflicting view points to alter each other's text. IIRC, there was concerning the thing might turn into the online equivalent of a hissy fit.
:
: Stph
:
--



More likely than not, we wouldn't host a true wiki that allowed anyone to do anything. How specifically it was addressed is subject to discussion. I've been thinking about how to handle it for a long time but haven't come up with anything that I was happy with.


-- REPLY: [With No Quote] --- [With Quoted Text]

'ax84 wiki'
Author:BlackLineFish (registered user: 784 posts )
Date: Tue, May 15th, 2007 @ 02:08 ( . )

On 05/14/2007 @ 13:33, Chris Hurley wrote:
More likely than not, we wouldn't host a true wiki that allowed anyone to do anything. How specifically it was addressed is subject to discussion. I've been thinking about how to handle it for a long time but haven't come up with anything that I was happy with.


I think only a handful of editors should start that project. Due to the "high voltage issue" of tube electronics (or any electronics), this could be a reason why you wouldn't want just anyone editing or contributing.

--gh

-- REPLY: [With No Quote] --- [With Quoted Text]

'ax84 wiki'
Author:Zaphod (guest: search)
Date: Mon, May 14th, 2007 @ 12:57 ( . )

Nothing - as long as I agree with them! :o)

On 05/14/2007 @ 12:10, Joris wrote :

What is wrong with conflicting technical viewpoints?

-- REPLY: [With No Quote] --- [With Quoted Text]

'ax84 wiki - terminology is the barrier'
Author:Brad Montgomery (guest: search)
Date: Mon, May 14th, 2007 @ 12:34 ( . )

On 05/14/2007 @ 07:57, Zaphod wrote :
The idea of a wiki has been discussed before. But the problem came up about how we deal with conflicting technical viewpoints. And how to keep the audiophools out. :o)


I think the FIRST step to establishing a comprehensive FAQ is to set terminology. I've used the search before and landed lots of bad hits when using common terms. A lot of that is the noob factor, no doubt. For example, a good FAQ-type question is "How do I bias my amp?" Then answers could be submitted free-form or filtered by an admin but THE question would be easy to find. One of the pitfalls of keyword searches is connotation and contextual meaning. I could "pick" a topic but the answer could be "biased" in the other direction leaving me to "fret" about it while getting mentally "strung" out and needing to "pickup" a beer and watch the "tube". Get it?

-- REPLY: [With No Quote] --- [With Quoted Text]

'ax84 wiki - terminology is the barrier'
Author:Stephen Keller (registered user: 6256 posts )
Date: Mon, May 14th, 2007 @ 12:59 ( . )

Exactly, which is why I'm thinking along the lines of a topical index. Something that could be browsed instead of using the keyword search.

-- REPLY: [With No Quote] --- [With Quoted Text]

'ax84 wiki - terminology is the barrier'
Author:Daniel Garlans (registered user: 3000 posts )
Date: Mon, May 14th, 2007 @ 15:03 ( . )

Yeah i have to admit, the search on here isn't so good sometimes; i've often spent quite a long time searching through here to find a thread that I'm positive answered my exact question, but I can't remember enough specific terms to pull that exact thread up rather than a pile of similar ones :(


-- REPLY: [With No Quote] --- [With Quoted Text]

'ax84 wiki - terminology is the barrier'
Author:Brad Montgomery (guest: search)
Date: Mon, May 14th, 2007 @ 15:55 ( . )

On 05/14/2007 @ 15:03, Daniel Garlans wrote :
Yeah i have to admit, the search on here isn't so good sometimes; i've often spent quite a long time searching through here to find a thread that I'm positive answered my exact question, but I can't remember enough specific terms to pull that exact thread up rather than a pile of similar ones :(
:
:
--



We're all guilty of off-topic chatter or the occasional thread hijack as well. Those kinds of mirages creep up in searches all the time and drive me nuts. Graydon can seem abrupt about it at 18watt but makes a good point about sticking to topic. Just look at the massive Valve Junior thread that's over a year long...you can't find ANYTHING in it quickly.

-- REPLY: [With No Quote] --- [With Quoted Text]

'ax84 wiki - terminology is the barrier'
Author:Shahaf Levin (registered user: 119 posts )
Date: Mon, May 14th, 2007 @ 18:44 ( . )

Maybe adding keyword/topics to the message the same as in academic papers?? That way the search function works only in that keywords list and go on the entire thread (Brad gave a good example for the problems we encounter becasuse of that). It can work regardless if the search will be of words form a list (it might become a very long one) or user key-in.
I have no idea how easy/hard it to implement, especially the part about determening the keyword for each thread/message. Will the (first) writer decide?? Administrator?? Select cadre of veterans?

-- REPLY: [With No Quote] --- [With Quoted Text]

'ax84 wiki - terminology is the barrier'
Author:Chris Hurley (moderator: 7843 posts )
Date: Tue, May 15th, 2007 @ 09:30 ( . )

On 05/14/2007 @ 18:44, Shahaf Levin wrote :
Maybe adding keyword/topics to the message the same as in academic papers?? That way the search function works only in that keywords list and go on the entire thread (Brad gave a good example for the problems we encounter becasuse of that). It can work regardless if the search will be of words form a list (it might become a very long one) or user key-in.
: I have no idea how easy/hard it to implement, especially the part about determening the keyword for each thread/message. Will the (first) writer decide?? Administrator?? Select cadre of veterans?
--



I had some code written that would index all of the messages, developing a keyword list that mostly automatically built a noiseword list. In our case, "amp" or "tube" is probably a noiseword because they occur in almost all of the messages, just like "the" and "and". Unfortunately, I'm not sure that the search behavior is what you'd want.

I think some sort of browsable faq/topic list is the way to go, with hooks on the articles that can lead to forum topics.

-- REPLY: [With No Quote] --- [With Quoted Text]

'ax84 wiki - terminology is the barrier'
Author:Brad Montgomery (guest: search)
Date: Tue, May 15th, 2007 @ 10:35 ( . )

On 05/15/2007 @ 09:30, Chris Hurley wrote :
I think some sort of browsable faq/topic list is the way to go, with hooks on the articles that can lead to forum topics.


That seems most intuitive to me...a long list of foundation topics with links to either articles or past threads. Aiken's site gets recommended frequently for many things, for example. In any case, I think the keyword method is just asking for maintenance headaches in the future since this site caters to such a wide range of experience and interest.

-- REPLY: [With No Quote] --- [With Quoted Text]

'ax84 wiki'
Author:Charlie Cyr (registered user: 1249 posts )
Date: Mon, May 14th, 2007 @ 21:15 ( . )

It would be great if the search function could give you results both from post and from maybe the FAQ's or an indexed FAQ type of deal. Kind of like a knowledge base.

-- REPLY: [With No Quote] --- [With Quoted Text]

'ax84 wiki'
Author:Francis Vaughan (registered user: 712 posts )
Date: Mon, May 14th, 2007 @ 22:55 ( . )

In the end any FAQ, Wiki, citation database, keyword tagging, or whatever, needs curation.

You just can't hope for any automatic tool to really work all that well. One could just loose Google into the database. (Actually the Google algorithm isn't suited, but you get the idea.)

What I might suggest is a another project. That is treat the documentation of good stuff as a project like any of the design projects. Set up another discussion header for this. An individual, or a small number of individuals get to be the curator of a particular topic. Chris is clearly the final and only arbiter of this. Discussion on the topic can reign unfettered on the forum, with contributions made there by anyone. But eventually the curators of the individual topic build the informative page. Pretty much how the FAQ is done. Making the FAQ a sticky topic under a documentation project would be an obvious start.

Personally I would be more than happy to contribute some time to build up documentation on the small subset of topics I feel qualified to pontificate on.

-- REPLY: [With No Quote] --- [With Quoted Text]

'ax84 wiki'
Author:nickt (guest: search)
Date: Mon, May 14th, 2007 @ 23:10 ( . )

Francis, your idea is excellent. Perhaps a Guru's forum or some sort of per-post vote "did this response help you?" kinda button thing to mark info as useful?

-- REPLY: [With No Quote] --- [With Quoted Text]


--- 39 Users Online --- 12 Recent Unique Posters

Q290=1488128872 - Threads: / 1488128872