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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:Bow (guest: search)
Date: Tue, Jan 18th, 2005 @ 11:15 ( . )

Anyone have any suggestions for low wattage subsitutes for EL84's?

I know in PP that run about 17 Watts, but is there any tube I can use in a EL84 PP design to lower the output wattage under 5 watts?

Thanks

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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:Bobby Kirbos (guest: search)
Date: Tue, Jan 18th, 2005 @ 12:23 ( . )

You could try a 6CL6 (7.5 watts max plate). I don't think they are in production anymore though.

You could also give the 6BM8 (7 watts max plate) a try. They're still in production by Sovtek. It's a pentode/triode. Using the triodes for the PI would be ideal. Not exactly the 5 watts you're looking for, but a bit closer.

Why not try a class AB 12AU7 based power amp. That would get you closer to your 5 watts. If it's not quite loud enough, double it up. It's not a pentode, but it sounds pretty good.

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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:Bow (guest: search)
Date: Tue, Jan 18th, 2005 @ 12:41 ( . )

On 01/18/2005 @ 12:23, Bobby Kirbos wrote :
:You could try a 6CL6 (7.5 watts max plate). I don't think they are in production anymore though.
:
: You could also give the 6BM8 (7 watts max plate) a try. They're still in production by Sovtek. It's a pentode/triode. Using the triodes for the PI would be ideal. Not exactly the 5 watts you're looking for, but a bit closer.
:
: Why not try a class AB 12AU7 based power amp. That would get you closer to your 5 watts. If it's not quite loud enough, double it up. It's not a pentode, but it sounds pretty good.
:
--


Thanks Bobby..

Yeah, I have done the 12AU7 when I built my FireFly. It sounds good and I will probably end up doing it again on this project.

I am just wondering if it will sound a lot like my FireFly when I get done....

Probably not because the preamp will be totally different...

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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:Rich Stevens (guest: search)
Date: Tue, Jan 18th, 2005 @ 12:56 ( . )

On 01/18/2005 @ 12:23, Bobby Kirbos wrote :
: You could also give the 6BM8 (7 watts max plate) a try. They're still in production by Sovtek. It's a pentode/triode. Using the triodes for the PI would be ideal. Not exactly the 5 watts you're looking for, but a bit closer.
:

That's the same as the ECL82. I think the triode in those is lower mu that a 12AX7. That might be a problem if you're trying to build a low-power 18 Watter, since much of the 18's tone comes from the PI driving the snot out of the output stage. The ECL82's triodes may not drive the pentodes hard enough.

The ECL86 has a 12AX7-equivalent triode, but it's pentode is also more powerful, so you're looking at 13 watts, which is a lot more than 5.


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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:Zaphod (guest: search)
Date: Tue, Jan 18th, 2005 @ 14:13 ( . )

The triode is similarish to a 12AT7 triode...

On 01/18/2005 @ 12:56, Rich Stevens wrote :
:
: That's the same as the ECL82. I think the triode in those is lower mu that a 12AX7.

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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:Doug H (registered user: 5400 posts )
Date: Wed, Jan 19th, 2005 @ 13:43 ( . )

On 01/18/2005 @ 12:23, Bobby Kirbos wrote :

: Why not try a class AB 12AU7 based power amp. That would get you closer to your 5 watts.
--
That's closer to 1W. You won't get 5W from a pair of 12au7's. Depending on the preamp it can be a loud 1W though...

And I agree that it really sounds good.

Doug

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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:Matt H (registered user: 7065 posts )
Date: Tue, Jan 18th, 2005 @ 12:41 ( . )

if you move into the realm of 7 pin tubes, your choices exponentially increase.

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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:Bow (guest: search)
Date: Tue, Jan 18th, 2005 @ 13:05 ( . )

On 01/18/2005 @ 12:41, Matt H wrote :
:if you move into the realm of 7 pin tubes, your choices exponentially increase.
--

I was thinking 6AK6....

But can't find much info for a PP setup...

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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:Matt H (registered user: 7065 posts )
Date: Tue, Jan 18th, 2005 @ 13:48 ( . )

yeah,and you likely won't...

check out mark lavelle's stuff, like the "pentotron", which uses a 6au6 output stage.

I believe doug hammond was also experimenting with a small 7 pin pentode push/pull output section... might ask him?

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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:Mark Lavelle (guest: search)
Date: Tue, Jan 18th, 2005 @ 14:16 ( . )

On 01/18/2005 @ 13:48, Matt H wrote :
: check out mark lavelle's stuff, like the "pentotron", which uses a 6au6 output stage.
--
I can't really recommend p-p 6AU6s. My Pentotron works, but I've never been entirely happy with it. All my other low-power p-p projects have been triode-based.

6AK6s have a much more reasonable Z, though (10k in SE), which I suspect would help quite a bit.

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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:Bow (guest: search)
Date: Tue, Jan 18th, 2005 @ 14:35 ( . )

On 01/18/2005 @ 14:16, Mark Lavelle wrote :
:On 01/18/2005 @ 13:48, Matt H wrote :
: : check out mark lavelle's stuff, like the "pentotron", which uses a 6au6 output stage.
: --
: I can't really recommend p-p 6AU6s. My Pentotron works, but I've never been entirely happy with it. All my other low-power p-p projects have been triode-based.
:
: 6AK6s have a much more reasonable Z, though (10k in SE), which I suspect would help quite a bit.
--

Thanks gents

How the heck do I design a 6AK6 PP power section?

Any tips, clues, ideas or thoughts?

Bow

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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:Bow (guest: search)
Date: Tue, Jan 18th, 2005 @ 15:09 ( . )

On 01/18/2005 @ 14:16, Mark Lavelle wrote :

: 6AK6s have a much more reasonable Z, though (10k in SE), which I suspect would help quite a bit.
--

Mark...

Any ideas on how to substitute 6AK6's into your design?

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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:Zaphod (guest: search)
Date: Tue, Jan 18th, 2005 @ 15:16 ( . )

What if you drove them from an LTPI...?

On 01/18/2005 @ 14:16, Mark Lavelle wrote :
:
: I can't really recommend p-p 6AU6s. My Pentotron works, but I've never been entirely happy with it. All my other low-power p-p projects have been triode-based.
:

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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:Bow (guest: search)
Date: Tue, Jan 18th, 2005 @ 15:21 ( . )

On 01/18/2005 @ 15:16, Zaphod wrote :
:What if you drove them from an LTPI...?

--

LTPI?

What is that... if I may ask....

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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:Matt H (registered user: 7065 posts )
Date: Tue, Jan 18th, 2005 @ 15:28 ( . )

long tailed phase inverter... it's what most push/pull amps use...

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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:Zaphod (guest: search)
Date: Tue, Jan 18th, 2005 @ 15:28 ( . )

It really should be LTTPI, but often gets "compressed" - Long Tailed Pair Phase Invertor

On 01/18/2005 @ 15:21, Bow wrote :
:
: LTPI?
:
: What is that... if I may ask....
--

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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:Bow (guest: search)
Date: Tue, Jan 18th, 2005 @ 15:30 ( . )

Thanks again...

I do not know what a Long Tailed Phase Invertor is...

I know...

"Damn Newbies"

Sorry

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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:Matt H (registered user: 7065 posts )
Date: Tue, Jan 18th, 2005 @ 15:38 ( . )

it's what's used in the november or cali dreamer design.


the two big phase inverter styles for push/pull amps are the LTPI (marshall plexi, fender twin reverb, for a quick big name glance).

the second big type is far less common, and used in many fender tweed era amps... the most famous being the 5e3 tweed deluxe.

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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:Daniel Garlans (registered user: 3000 posts )
Date: Tue, Jan 18th, 2005 @ 15:38 ( . )

which is the other one? concertina? or .. ?

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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:JamesH (guest: search)
Date: Tue, Jan 18th, 2005 @ 16:00 ( . )

yup!

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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:Matt H (registered user: 7065 posts )
Date: Tue, Jan 18th, 2005 @ 16:33 ( . )

sometimes called a cathodyne (i think that's it?)

there's also the isodyne?...

anywhere, check out www.aikenamps.com in the tech sections... i know there's stuff about the various kinds

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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:Newt (guest: search)
Date: Tue, Jan 18th, 2005 @ 15:45 ( . )

"I do not know what a Long Tailed Phase Invertor is..."

Look at www.aikenamps.com under the technical stuff. This is a great resource! I must have looked at the glossary a million times (still do) when I see a term or acronym I don't recognize. (Of course, there are those like Phil who can't spell LTPPI)

BTW, Phil, remember a couple months back I told you I owed you a tit-for-tat for a little link I put on this board? Well, it's done now.

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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:Bow (guest: search)
Date: Tue, Jan 18th, 2005 @ 15:55 ( . )

ahhhh

and Viltage!
:^)

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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:Newt (guest: search)
Date: Tue, Jan 18th, 2005 @ 16:09 ( . )

"and Viltage!"

I just thought "viltage" meant "vintage voltage"

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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:Daniel Garlans (registered user: 3000 posts )
Date: Tue, Jan 18th, 2005 @ 16:27 ( . )

ssh! don't encourage him! :D

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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:JamesH (guest: search)
Date: Tue, Jan 18th, 2005 @ 16:39 ( . )

That's funny, I kept reading vintage too... and now I've every time I see 'voltage' at school I read 'vintage'. I also started reading 'magnetic' as 'magical' so who knows.


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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:Rich Stevens (guest: search)
Date: Tue, Jan 18th, 2005 @ 16:49 ( . )

In college one year we were blessed with an electrical machines professor who had just arrived from Russia. One day, he was busy drawing rotors and stators and various types of rotating and non-rotating magenetic fluxes on the overhead projector in several colors. All the time he kept going on about impotence. As usual, we had no idea what he was talking about, and for a good solid half-hour.

Finally, a voice from the back of the room exclaimed, "Oh! He's talking about IMPEDANCE!"

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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:Zaphod (guest: search)
Date: Tue, Jan 18th, 2005 @ 17:12 ( . )

Now what was that? It seems to have fallen out of my two brains somehere....

On 01/18/2005 @ 15:45, Newt wrote :
:
: BTW, Phil, remember a couple months back I told you I owed you a tit-for-tat for a little link I put on this board? Well, it's done now.
--

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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:Newt (guest: search)
Date: Tue, Jan 18th, 2005 @ 17:53 ( . )

"Now what was that?"

That would be the mugshots.

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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:Mark Lavelle (guest: search)
Date: Wed, Jan 19th, 2005 @ 00:32 ( . )

I'll try it if *you'll* design a LTP using two 6AU6s (or other readily available 7-pin pentodes) -- that would boost the Pentotron to *5* pentodes!

On 01/18/2005 @ 15:16, Zaphod wrote :
:What if you drove them from an LTPI...?
:
: On 01/18/2005 @ 14:16, Mark Lavelle wrote :
: :
: : I can't really recommend p-p 6AU6s. My Pentotron works, but I've never been entirely happy with it. All my other low-power p-p projects have been triode-based.
: :
--

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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:Matt H (registered user: 7065 posts )
Date: Wed, Jan 19th, 2005 @ 02:34 ( . )

mark, i actually have a design you might be interested in... it doesn't use two pentodes htough, instead it uses a 6J6 (dual triode 7 pin tube with common cathode).

i'll try to dig up PI values. shoot me an email

mhanson AT NOMORESPAM-DAMNIT capecod DOT net

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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:Zaphod (guest: search)
Date: Wed, Jan 19th, 2005 @ 09:07 ( . )

Well, the original context of this thread is the Marshall 18W with a lower-power output. Within that context the PI is already defined as the 18W's 12AX7-based LTPPI.

I'm sure with some load lines and a few experiments you could also build a version that used 6AU6s instead for your Pentotron... :o)

On 01/19/2005 @ 00:32, Mark Lavelle wrote :
:I'll try it if *you'll* design a LTP using two 6AU6s (or other readily available 7-pin pentodes) -- that would boost the Pentotron to *5* pentodes!
:

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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:Mark Lavelle (guest: search)
Date: Wed, Jan 19th, 2005 @ 12:52 ( . )

On 01/19/2005 @ 09:07, Zaphod wrote :
:Well, the original context of this thread is the Marshall 18W with a lower-power output. Within that context the PI is already defined as the 18W's 12AX7-based LTPPI.
:
: I'm sure with some load lines and a few experiments you could also build a version that used 6AU6s instead for your Pentotron... :o)
--
Yeah, but it takes a lot less voltage swing to "drive the snot out of" a pair of 6AU6s! I'm going to take a look at Matt's 6J6 idea and see if I can apply it to a pair of 6AU6s in triode mode (which have a very similar Ra and mu)...

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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:Doug H (registered user: 5400 posts )
Date: Wed, Jan 19th, 2005 @ 13:40 ( . )

On 01/19/2005 @ 12:52, Mark Lavelle wrote :


: Yeah, but it takes a lot less voltage swing to "drive the snot out of" a pair of 6AU6s! I'm going to take a look at Matt's 6J6 idea and see if I can apply it to a pair of 6AU6s in triode mode (which have a very similar Ra and mu)...
--

You guys should consider a 12au7-based LTP for driving these small output tubes. I have experimented with it and it works very well. It's an easy way of getting some headroom back when you are using a small power tube.

Doug

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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:Jon Fleig (guest: search)
Date: Tue, Jan 18th, 2005 @ 19:05 ( . )

Matti Kari built this push-pull 6AK6 amp.

[link]

I just built a single-ended 6AK6 amp that I like a lot. ~1W output is perfect for indoor cranking.

The 6AK6 is a miniature version of the glass octal 6G6-G. Maximum plate voltage is 300V, but with a max plate dissipation of 2.75W, I think it's best to keep plate voltage under 200V.

I run my single ended 6AK6 at 160V / 19 mA with a 360 ohm cathode resistor. Cathode voltage is about 7V.

One step up in power is the 6K6-GT. A pair of these at 285V and 55 mA (for the pair) gets 9.8W output. The mini version of the 6K6 is the 6AR5.

-Jon

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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:Bow (guest: search)
Date: Tue, Jan 18th, 2005 @ 19:17 ( . )

On 01/18/2005 @ 19:05, Jon Fleig wrote :
:Matti Kari built this push-pull 6AK6 amp.
:
: [link]
:
: I just built a single-ended 6AK6 amp that I like a lot. ~1W output is perfect for indoor cranking.
:
: The 6AK6 is a miniature version of the glass octal 6G6-G. Maximum plate voltage is 300V, but with a max plate dissipation of 2.75W, I think it's best to keep plate voltage under 200V.
:
: I run my single ended 6AK6 at 160V / 19 mA with a 360 ohm cathode resistor. Cathode voltage is about 7V.
:
: One step up in power is the 6K6-GT. A pair of these at 285V and 55 mA (for the pair) gets 9.8W output. The mini version of the 6K6 is the 6AR5.
:
: -Jon
:
--


Sounds good Jon!

Got any clips?

I actually emailed Matti today for some information, I'll see if he replies.

Thanke for the link


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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:Jon Fleig (guest: search)
Date: Tue, Jan 18th, 2005 @ 19:39 ( . )

Sorry, no clips. It's clean at acoustic guitar volume, cranked it's classic rock distortion.

Here's the build page:
[link]

Sorry, no schemo on the webpage yet. I used a 6AK5 pentode for the preamp. You can sub almost any small signal pentode - 6AU6, 6AS6, 6AG5 for the preamp. I'll be happy to make a schematic, if you think you want to build it. From the pics, you can see how simple it is.

This project was just an exercise to see if I could build a useful guitar amp with a ridiculously small power transformer I picked up at a hamfest.

I'm liking low power pentodes.

-Jon





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'Cool Little build!'
Author:Bow (guest: search)
Date: Tue, Jan 18th, 2005 @ 20:07 ( . )

On 01/18/2005 @ 19:39, Jon Fleig wrote :
:Sorry, no clips. It's clean at acoustic guitar volume, cranked it's classic rock distortion.
:
: Here's the build page:
: [link]
:
: Sorry, no schemo on the webpage yet. I used a 6AK5 pentode for the preamp. You can sub almost any small signal pentode - 6AU6, 6AS6, 6AG5 for the preamp. I'll be happy to make a schematic, if you think you want to build it. From the pics, you can see how simple it is.
:
: This project was just an exercise to see if I could build a useful guitar amp with a ridiculously small power transformer I picked up at a hamfest.
:
: I'm liking low power pentodes.
:
: -Jon
__

Cool Build Jon!

Nice and compact, very few parts. Very sweet.

I would love to see a schematic if you get the time to do one up. That looks like a great beginner amp for a low cost!



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'Cool Little build!'
Author:Jon Fleig (guest: search)
Date: Wed, Jan 19th, 2005 @ 07:42 ( . )

I've updated the web page with a link to the schematic.

-Jon

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'Cool Little build!'
Author:Bow (guest: search)
Date: Wed, Jan 19th, 2005 @ 08:09 ( . )

On 01/19/2005 @ 07:42, Jon Fleig wrote :
:I've updated the web page with a link to the schematic.
:
: -Jon
:
--

You are too cool.

Thanks man!

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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:Zaphod (guest: search)
Date: Wed, Jan 19th, 2005 @ 07:11 ( . )

Which then makes me suspect that it may not make a good substitute for an EL84, tonewise...

On 01/18/2005 @ 19:05, Jon Fleig wrote :
:
: The 6AK6 is a miniature version of the glass octal 6G6-G...
:

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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:Bow (guest: search)
Date: Wed, Jan 19th, 2005 @ 08:14 ( . )

On 01/19/2005 @ 07:11, Zaphod wrote :
:Which then makes me suspect that it may not make a good substitute for an EL84, tonewise...

--

Hmmm... But I kind of need to go with some type of pentode in Push Pull to get the same type of tone as EL84's in PP, no?

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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:Zaphod (guest: search)
Date: Wed, Jan 19th, 2005 @ 09:04 ( . )

I would think so, and there's the problem. The 6L6, and therefore also the 6AK6 is a beam tetrode and not a true pentode. The way these behave dynamically is somewhat different. For exmaples the tetrodes tend to have a greater damping factor. That's why I'm tending to think the 6AU6 may still be a better option, as it appears to be a real pentode.

On 01/19/2005 @ 08:14, Bow wrote :
:
: Hmmm... But I kind of need to go with some type of pentode in Push Pull to get the same type of tone as EL84's in PP, no?
:
--

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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:Bow (guest: search)
Date: Wed, Jan 19th, 2005 @ 09:20 ( . )

On 01/19/2005 @ 09:04, Zaphod wrote :
:I would think so, and there's the problem. The 6L6, and therefore also the 6AK6 is a beam tetrode and not a true pentode. The way these behave dynamically is somewhat different. For exmaples the tetrodes tend to have a greater damping factor. That's why I'm tending to think the 6AU6 may still be a better option, as it appears to be a real pentode.

--

Ahhh Very interesting...

That is something I didn't know... well I don't know a lot of things about amp building...

So you think the 6AU6 would be a better choice for a mini EL84.

So I could "Borrow" Mark's Power Amp section design...


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'EL95?'
Author:JamesH (guest: search)
Date: Wed, Jan 19th, 2005 @ 09:33 ( . )

What about the el95? I think someone was posting about an amp with that recently.

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'EL95?'
Author:Mark Lavelle (guest: search)
Date: Wed, Jan 19th, 2005 @ 12:54 ( . )

On 01/19/2005 @ 09:33, JamesH wrote :
:What about the el95? I think someone was posting about an amp with that recently.
--
Not a bad idea. It's a true pentode, anyway, even if it is a little more power than he's looking for...

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'EL95?'
Author:Zaphod (guest: search)
Date: Wed, Jan 19th, 2005 @ 13:02 ( . )

Can you dind them these days...?

On 01/19/2005 @ 12:54, Mark Lavelle wrote :
:
: Not a bad idea. It's a true pentode, anyway, even if it is a little more power than he's looking for...
--

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'EL95?'
Author:Mark Lavelle (guest: search)
Date: Wed, Jan 19th, 2005 @ 14:13 ( . )

On 01/19/2005 @ 13:02, Zaphod wrote :
:Can you dind them these days...?
:
: On 01/19/2005 @ 12:54, Mark Lavelle wrote :
: :
: : Not a bad idea. It's a true pentode, anyway, even if it is a little more power than he's looking for...
: --
:
--

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'Arrrgh!'
Author:Mark Lavelle (guest: search)
Date: Wed, Jan 19th, 2005 @ 14:15 ( . )

I mis-clicked!

I *think* KWTUBES sells Russian ones sometimes on eBay. He definitely Has EL9x types from time to time...

On 01/19/2005 @ 14:13, Mark Lavelle wrote :
:On 01/19/2005 @ 13:02, Zaphod wrote :
: :Can you dind them these days...?
: :
: : On 01/19/2005 @ 12:54, Mark Lavelle wrote :
: : :
: : : Not a bad idea. It's a true pentode, anyway, even if it is a little more power than he's looking for...
: : --
: :
: --
:
--

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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:Jon Fleig (guest: search)
Date: Wed, Jan 19th, 2005 @ 13:29 ( . )

Zaphod,

Please explain how "The 6L6, and therefore also the 6AK6 is a beam tetrode and not a true pentode".

How is a 6AK6 related to a 6L6? Where are the beam-forming plates. Please cite some documentation.

-Jon


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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:Zaphod (guest: search)
Date: Wed, Jan 19th, 2005 @ 13:39 ( . )

Please read further back in the thread. Someone else posted had that the 6AK6 is a baby 6L6. I was just following on with that line of logic...

On 01/19/2005 @ 13:29, Jon Fleig wrote :
:
: How is a 6AK6 related to a 6L6? Where are the beam-forming plates. Please cite some documentation.
:

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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:Matt H (registered user: 7065 posts )
Date: Wed, Jan 19th, 2005 @ 15:42 ( . )

phil, he said "mini version of a 6G6-G, not 6L6-G..."


a quick look at the tube datasheet shows that it's a real PENTODE... with a NOT already connected suppressor grid (pin 2) to the cathode (pin 7) (which is a bit odd, i must admit in these small tubes)

oddly enough, there's also the 6ak5, which is another pentode where the suppressor is tied to the cathode on pins 2 and 7.

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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:Zaphod (guest: search)
Date: Wed, Jan 19th, 2005 @ 17:35 ( . )

It must be my eyes. I though that was an "L" and dang it, you're right. It's a little pentode too! And with the seperate G3, you can do the -ve biased suppresor thing, like with an EL34.

So I don't know why Luap says it sounds like a 6L6, but maybe it does...

On 01/19/2005 @ 15:42, Matt H wrote :
:phil, he said "mini version of a 6G6-G, not 6L6-G..."
:
:
: a quick look at the tube datasheet shows that it's a real PENTODE... with a NOT already connected suppressor grid (pin 2) to the cathode (pin 7) (which is a bit odd, i must admit in these small tubes)
:
: oddly enough, there's also the 6ak5, which is another pentode where the suppressor is tied to the cathode on pins 2 and 7.
--

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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:Matt H (registered user: 7065 posts )
Date: Wed, Jan 19th, 2005 @ 18:13 ( . )

it might just not be mid-heavy like an el84... even 6v6's are pretty "scooped" tubes compared to el84 tubes.

I wouldn't worry about the negative g3 connection though... well, if one were cathode biasing. I'd just connect it to the cathode for one reason- allowing the use of MANY more tubes (those that DO internally connect G3 to cathode, such as the 6ak5 and have pins 2 and 7 internally connected)

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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:Zaphod (guest: search)
Date: Wed, Jan 19th, 2005 @ 18:19 ( . )

To my ears, EL84s appear to be more.. um.. top-heavy.

On 01/19/2005 @ 18:13, Matt H wrote :
:it might just not be mid-heavy like an el84...

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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:JohnA (guest: search)
Date: Wed, Jan 19th, 2005 @ 18:29 ( . )

Yeah, me too. I'm building an amp for a friend and he's so hung up on EL84s as being his perfect tone that I knew he'd never be happy with anything but EL84s so I didn't even go down other roads. But, everything he says he wants from the amp (more lows and low mids, mostly) I associate with other tubes. Furthermore, every example he's cited of what he's looking for has been a non-EL84 amp :(

So, I'm going to build him an EL84 amp and use every trick in the book to boost the bass and low mids, I 'spose. :)

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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:Matt H (registered user: 7065 posts )
Date: Wed, Jan 19th, 2005 @ 20:53 ( . )

hmm, see if you could convince him to use a 6aq5... tonally i've heard they're somewhere between an el84 and a 6v6...

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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:Bow (guest: search)
Date: Wed, Jan 19th, 2005 @ 21:07 ( . )

On 01/19/2005 @ 20:53, Matt H wrote :
:hmm, see if you could convince him to use a 6aq5... tonally i've heard they're somewhere between an el84 and a 6v6...
--

[link]

They look good, but 10 watts in Push Pull?

Little higher than I need....

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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:Matt H (registered user: 7065 posts )
Date: Wed, Jan 19th, 2005 @ 22:00 ( . )

that was in response to John's friend that's talking about an "el84 or else" amp... not your original post. which is why i responded ot his post, versus a higher one up.

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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:Bow (guest: search)
Date: Thu, Jan 20th, 2005 @ 08:01 ( . )

On 01/19/2005 @ 22:00, Matt H wrote :
:that was in response to John's friend that's talking about an "el84 or else" amp... not your original post. which is why i responded ot his post, versus a higher one up.
--


OOOPS!

Sorry!



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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:JohnA (guest: search)
Date: Wed, Jan 19th, 2005 @ 22:33 ( . )

I don't think he'll go for it. I tried really hard to push him toward 6V6s. He's owned several EL84 amps and loved them except he couldn't get enough bass and low mids *shrug.* Somewhere along the line he's come to associate singing sustain with EL84s and is dead convinced that other tubes won't go there.

He's blind, so I SERIOUSLY considered building him an amp with 6V6s figuring he wouldn't discover they weren't EL84s for 8 months to a year - longer if he had me re-tube it for him when the time comes. <evin grin>

JohnA

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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:Matt H (registered user: 7065 posts )
Date: Wed, Jan 19th, 2005 @ 22:44 ( . )

are you going single ended? or push pull?

if SE, do a parallel 6v6/el84 combo... and just feed the grids differently proportioned signals (since the el84 needs so much less drive)

i think speaker choice is huge too... my friend's got a peavey classic 100, with 8 el84's... it's anything but weak in the bass.

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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:JohnA (guest: search)
Date: Thu, Jan 20th, 2005 @ 09:22 ( . )

His last "big" amp was a Peavey Classic 50/50 stereo amp with 4 EL84s per side. I thought it sounded great and he was mostly happy with it but he wanted something smaller and with more gain in the preamp. The Classic 50/50 barely "qualifies" as a guitar amp, it's only got one gain stage in the preamp so it's tough to get good preamp overdrive out of it - and pushing those two 50 watt channels into overdrive was out of the question for most places he plays. He got pretty decent results by pushing the amp with a 2101 processor with it's output levels maxed. Still, most of his tone (which is pretty darn good, BTW) was coming from the 2101 - he could almost have been pushing a good solid state power amp for all the good those 8 EL84s were doing him most of the time. :)

He's also fairly happy with his Peavey Classic 20 (with 12AT7s in both preamp slots) run into a 2X12 loaded with Vintage 30s, though again he wants more bass and low mids and in this case I have to agree with him.

The classic 20 is also about the right size. At the places where he can play the loudest, and is "competing" with a fairly loud band, it's just loud enough for him to use as a stage monitor when it's run guts out. He mics it and runs to the house PA and it sounds great.

So, I'm using a power amp similar to that in the Classic 20 but with the tubes biased into class A and more slope on the NFB to boost the bass and mids more.

The preamp is the fun part, two channels with six gain stages on the lead channel and four on the clean channel - not counting the stage after the effects return for each of the stereo channels. All of the stages except the first biased to go into saturation well before clipping. How does Tim Allen put it? Oh yeah, argh, argh, or something like that. :)

JohnA

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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:Bow (guest: search)
Date: Thu, Jan 20th, 2005 @ 09:56 ( . )

DAMN!

That think should really rock!

6 gain stages?

You heading for the SLO-100 zone? LOL

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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:Matt H (registered user: 7065 posts )
Date: Thu, Jan 20th, 2005 @ 13:13 ( . )

i hate to say it, but swapping one of his V30's go a g12h30 would probably do the "more bass and lower mid" thing... especially a 55Hz one, but even the normal 75hz model would likely do it.

of course, new amps are fun. hehe

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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:Zaphod (guest: search)
Date: Thu, Jan 20th, 2005 @ 13:26 ( . )

I would have though an "18W TMB" would get him pretty close to the sound he wants, especially with Celestion G12H-30s.

But holy cow, four gain stages in the clean channel and six on the dirt side!!!! I sure wouldn't like to have to debug any noise or hum out of that one!

On 01/20/2005 @ 09:22, JohnA wrote :
:His last "big" amp was a Peavey Classic 50/50 stereo amp with 4 EL84s per side. I thought it sounded great and he was mostly happy with it but he wanted something smaller and with more gain in the preamp. The Classic 50/50 barely "qualifies" as a guitar amp, it's only got one gain stage in the preamp so it's tough to get good preamp overdrive out of it - and pushing those two 50 watt channels into overdrive was out of the question for most places he plays. He got pretty decent results by pushing the amp with a 2101 processor with it's output levels maxed. Still, most of his tone (which is pretty darn good, BTW) was coming from the 2101 - he could almost have been pushing a good solid state power amp for all the good those 8 EL84s were doing him most of the time. :)
:
: He's also fairly happy with his Peavey Classic 20 (with 12AT7s in both preamp slots) run into a 2X12 loaded with Vintage 30s, though again he wants more bass and low mids and in this case I have to agree with him.
:
: The classic 20 is also about the right size. At the places where he can play the loudest, and is "competing" with a fairly loud band, it's just loud enough for him to use as a stage monitor when it's run guts out. He mics it and runs to the house PA and it sounds great.
:
: So, I'm using a power amp similar to that in the Classic 20 but with the tubes biased into class A and more slope on the NFB to boost the bass and mids more.
:
: The preamp is the fun part, two channels with six gain stages on the lead channel and four on the clean channel - not counting the stage after the effects return for each of the stereo channels. All of the stages except the first biased to go into saturation well before clipping. How does Tim Allen put it? Oh yeah, argh, argh, or something like that. :)
:
: JohnA
:
--

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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:CraigB (guest: search)
Date: Thu, Jan 20th, 2005 @ 14:33 ( . )

Gee, I'm hurt no one remembers my 6AK6 amp. He could go with 2 instead of 4 power tubes and get, what, about 4w? They are pretty cool little tubes, I must say. CraigB

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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:Rich Stevens (guest: search)
Date: Thu, Jan 20th, 2005 @ 14:59 ( . )

(Search... all areas.... CraigB 6AK6) Oh, sure! I remember your amp. Fanastic piece of engineering. Yeah - that's the ticket.

Well, I found a thread where you discussed your PLAN to build it, and I found your schematic, but nothing about how it actually turned out.

How did it turn out?

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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:Bow (guest: search)
Date: Thu, Jan 20th, 2005 @ 15:50 ( . )

On 01/20/2005 @ 14:59, Rich Stevens wrote :
:(Search... all areas.... CraigB 6AK6) Oh, sure! I remember your amp. Fanastic piece of engineering. Yeah - that's the ticket.
:
: Well, I found a thread where you discussed your PLAN to build it, and I found your schematic, but nothing about how it actually turned out.
:
: How did it turn out?
--

Yeah!

Do Tell!

Rich and I are real interested in such developments with the 6AK6...

:^)



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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:CraigB (guest: search)
Date: Thu, Jan 20th, 2005 @ 18:18 ( . )

Ha, just kidding, I wouldn't expect anyone to remember it! After a few months of posts, it becomes ancient history :)

I still play it all the time. I just leave it set up at the drummer's house for rehearsal. He has those Roland VG drums and we practice pretty low. Voxy, jangly, which I suspect has more to do with Mark Lavelle's 6AU6 pentode preamp than the 6AK6s. So, I can't really comment on what another preamp and PI setup would sound like in front of them, but I'm pretty sure 2 of them wouldn't sound a whole lot different than 4.


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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:Bow (guest: search)
Date: Thu, Jan 20th, 2005 @ 19:48 ( . )

On 01/20/2005 @ 18:18, CraigB wrote :
:Ha, just kidding, I wouldn't expect anyone to remember it! After a few months of posts, it becomes ancient history :)
:
: I still play it all the time. I just leave it set up at the drummer's house for rehearsal. He has those Roland VG drums and we practice pretty low. Voxy, jangly, which I suspect has more to do with Mark Lavelle's 6AU6 pentode preamp than the 6AK6s. So, I can't really comment on what another preamp and PI setup would sound like in front of them, but I'm pretty sure 2 of them wouldn't sound a whole lot different than 4.
:
:
--
Sounds cool.. not too loud is what we are looking at...

But do you have a schematic?

Can you help a couple Houston area amp creating Brothers out?

bow


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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:Rich Stevens (guest: search)
Date: Fri, Jan 21st, 2005 @ 08:27 ( . )

I already found CraigB's schematic - check yer mail.

I thinking about building my AK as a goldtop.

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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:Bow (guest: search)
Date: Fri, Jan 21st, 2005 @ 10:03 ( . )

On 01/21/2005 @ 08:27, Rich Stevens wrote :
:I already found CraigB's schematic - check yer mail.
:
: I thinking about building my AK as a goldtop.
--
HAHAHHA

That is sick!
LOL

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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:JohnA (guest: search)
Date: Thu, Jan 20th, 2005 @ 17:09 ( . )

On 01/20/2005 @ 13:26, Zaphod wrote :
:
: But holy cow, four gain stages in the clean channel and six on the dirt side!!!! I sure wouldn't like to have to debug any noise or hum out of that one!

:) I've already told him that he's getting a big chassis and cage and he'll just have to live with it. In fact, we decided to build a rack into the bottom of the head cab so he can mount his 2101 right in the head and get rid of the 8X SKB rack he's using now.

The big chassis alone will go a long way toward keeping things clean and tidy. I'm also using regulated DC on the preamp heaters and a steel shield between the preamp and everything else - kind of like that found on some of the old Bogen PA amps.

JohnA

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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:Luap (guest: search)
Date: Thu, Jan 20th, 2005 @ 20:07 ( . )

Yes, this is subjective (what I hear)...

I've built 2 amps with the 6AK6, one SE w/35V plates the other PP with ~130V plates, they both break up similar to my Mig-50, the bottom end stays very smooth/clean, if pushed really hard -it makes sort of a brraAATT! type distortion (probably closer to fart than crunch). Doesn't have the shiny upper-mid/chime high end I associate with EL84s.

BTW when I've tried 6au6s in these amps without changing bias,( yeah I know this isn't a fair comparison) it's quite a bit brighter... and I get to play with blocking distortion ...fun!

Luap



On 01/19/2005 @ 17:35, Zaphod wrote :

:
: So I don't know why Luap says it sounds like a 6L6, but maybe it does...
:

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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:Bow (guest: search)
Date: Fri, Jan 21st, 2005 @ 08:01 ( . )

On 01/20/2005 @ 20:07, Luap wrote :
:Yes, this is subjective (what I hear)...
:
: I've built 2 amps with the 6AK6, one SE w/35V plates the other PP with ~130V plates, they both break up similar to my Mig-50, the bottom end stays very smooth/clean, if pushed really hard -it makes sort of a brraAATT! type distortion (probably closer to fart than crunch). Doesn't have the shiny upper-mid/chime high end I associate with EL84s.
:
: BTW when I've tried 6au6s in these amps without changing bias,( yeah I know this isn't a fair comparison) it's quite a bit brighter... and I get to play with blocking distortion ...fun!
:
: Luap
:
:
:
: On 01/19/2005 @ 17:35, Zaphod wrote :
:
: :
: : So I don't know why Luap says it sounds like a 6L6, but maybe it does...
: :
:
--


Sounds Cool Luap!

Sound Samples?

Pics?

Schematics?

The 6AK6 builds are coming out of the woodwork!

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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:Zaphod (guest: search)
Date: Fri, Jan 21st, 2005 @ 11:13 ( . )

Now that really is like an EL84 then - on both counts! :o)

On 01/20/2005 @ 20:07, Luap wrote :
:
: BTW when I've tried 6au6s in these amps without changing bias,( yeah I know this isn't a fair comparison) it's quite a bit brighter... and I get to play with blocking distortion ...fun!
:

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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:Bob S. (guest: search)
Date: Tue, Jan 18th, 2005 @ 18:00 ( . )

6CA5, 6AS5
both will run on relatively low voltage. It might prove interesting. Specs on a single tube 1.2 to 1.5 w on 125v to the plate. No information on push pull configuration but it looks to me like it should work. Might be fun.

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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:Jon Fleig (guest: search)
Date: Wed, Jan 19th, 2005 @ 19:44 ( . )

I considered using these for my last junkbox build (I've got 5 boxes of miscellaneous hamfest tubes to conduct mad-scientist experiments with).

The only knock is their rather high filament draw (1.2A, 0.8A), because the PT I wanted to use only had 600 mA for the filaments.

It's interesting to design a guitar amp running off rectified USA line voltage after an isolation transformer, or suchlike. There are a number of output tubes designed to run with B+ < 200V. Most of them draw a bunch of filament, though.

-Jon



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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:Luap (guest: search)
Date: Tue, Jan 18th, 2005 @ 17:51 ( . )

The 6AK6 have a very 6L6 type sound to my ears.

I did a 6AK6 cathodyne PP amp, loosely based on the 5E3. I'm happy with some of the sounds but not really happy overall and have continued to tweak (mostly in spice). ..it can sound really great with my outboard reverb and a zogged amp in front. (louder than my dog likes though)

Luap

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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:Bow (guest: search)
Date: Tue, Jan 18th, 2005 @ 19:02 ( . )

On 01/18/2005 @ 17:51, Luap wrote :
:The 6AK6 have a very 6L6 type sound to my ears.
:
: I did a 6AK6 cathodyne PP amp, loosely based on the 5E3. I'm happy with some of the sounds but not really happy overall and have continued to tweak (mostly in spice). ..it can sound really great with my outboard reverb and a zogged amp in front. (louder than my dog likes though)
:
: Luap
--


Hmmm.. interesting..

got a schematic you could share?

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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:Brian (guest: search)
Date: Wed, Jan 19th, 2005 @ 09:12 ( . )

6N1P would be a good choice. They are cheap and you will get about 5 watts out of it.

Brian

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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:Bow (guest: search)
Date: Wed, Jan 19th, 2005 @ 09:22 ( . )

On 01/19/2005 @ 09:12, Brian wrote :
:6N1P would be a good choice. They are cheap and you will get about 5 watts out of it.
:
: Brian
--

Yeah, but they are Triodes, like a 12AU7...

I am shooting for Pentode's

Thanks for the suggestion though

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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:Brian (guest: search)
Date: Wed, Jan 19th, 2005 @ 14:49 ( . )

the 6N1P is a really sweet sounding tube. Sounds better than the EL84 when overdriven.

Brian

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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:Bow (guest: search)
Date: Wed, Jan 19th, 2005 @ 16:06 ( . )

On 01/19/2005 @ 14:49, Brian wrote :
:the 6N1P is a really sweet sounding tube. Sounds better than the EL84 when overdriven.
:
: Brian
--
Oh, I agree.. I've heard a Gilmore Jr, which uses a 6N1P.

It sounds good, like a FireFly with the 12AU7..

I am just looking for a tone that is pentode ;)

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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:Jan Hagstrom (guest: search)
Date: Wed, Jan 19th, 2005 @ 16:37 ( . )

What about the EL91? It´s a pentode really low-watt to.

Jan Hagström

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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:Bow (guest: search)
Date: Thu, Jan 20th, 2005 @ 08:09 ( . )

On 01/19/2005 @ 16:37, Jan Hagstrom wrote :
:What about the EL91? It´s a pentode really low-watt to.
:
: Jan Hagström
--

Hard to find around these parts...

Too bad, it looks like it is the beast I need...

[link]

20K Plate Load in AB PP and 4.8 Watts

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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:Luap (guest: search)
Date: Wed, Jan 19th, 2005 @ 15:07 ( . )

For the schematic/info email me luapacoli AT mindless dot com
subject: mhOron

Zaphod nailed the 6AK6 tube tone wise/ not really an EL sounding tube.
Not really ready to publish this work in progress, but I would be glad to send you what I've got so far (matti's looks to be a more complete design, If you get a schematic from him let us know!) ...right now its sans TS - haven't found a TS that I like with it. (just using an eq in front has worked best so far)

will probably change it to screen fed self-split to get more gain.

FYI-I've made spice models for the 6AK6 and 6AU6 should you start modeling something. (more stuff to publish)

Luap

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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:Bow (guest: search)
Date: Wed, Jan 19th, 2005 @ 16:01 ( . )

On 01/19/2005 @ 15:07, Luap wrote :
:For the schematic/info email me luapacoli AT mindless dot com
: subject: mhOron
:
: Zaphod nailed the 6AK6 tube tone wise/ not really an EL sounding tube.
: Not really ready to publish this work in progress, but I would be glad to send you what I've got so far (matti's looks to be a more complete design, If you get a schematic from him let us know!) ...right now its sans TS - haven't found a TS that I like with it. (just using an eq in front has worked best so far)
:
: will probably change it to screen fed self-split to get more gain.
:
: FYI-I've made spice models for the 6AK6 and 6AU6 should you start modeling something. (more stuff to publish)
:
: Luap
--


Luap,

Thanks for the info.

Matti doesn't have a schematic, I asked him...

As far as modeling, I don't have Spice, but wish I did. I'll shoot you an email from home later.

I need a decent Schematic drawing software! LOL

Any good free ones out there?





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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:Tony Deknes (guest: search)
Date: Wed, Jan 19th, 2005 @ 18:19 ( . )

I've used one from here... It's free - it takes a little getting used to and you'll have to create your tubes - but you can export the finished schematic to a bitmap!!

[link]

I also use DesignWorks lite which has a lot more features, but isn't free - nor is it as expensive as a full blown tool... It has extensive libraries - I've just had to add a tube here and there and multi-tap transformers. There is a free download that expires in like 30 days - and believe me, you can't fool it!!!

[link]

I'd be interested in hearing what some other "non-pro's" are using....

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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:JohnA (guest: search)
Date: Wed, Jan 19th, 2005 @ 18:34 ( . )

I use the schematic program in Simetrix Spice, then I print to a PDF file using PDF995, select and copy the graphic out of the PDF document and paste it into paintshop pro to touch up as needed, then print again to PDF995. The printing to PDF document, copying the graphic, pasting into paintshop is to get a high resolution image that doesn't have the grid dots all over it. I used to do the same thing by printing to paper and then scanning the paper back in.

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'Schematic Software on the cheap'
Author:Bow (guest: search)
Date: Wed, Jan 19th, 2005 @ 20:02 ( . )

wow..

thanks for the idea's gents.. I'll have to start looking..

I know of one free version called TubePad 6 that is avaible here:
: [link]

it uses MS Paint, but works and you can do stuff like this:

[link]

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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:Bow (guest: search)
Date: Mon, Jan 24th, 2005 @ 19:49 ( . )

Hey Luap!

Incoming email!

Sorry for the delay!

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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:Bob S. (guest: search)
Date: Thu, Jan 20th, 2005 @ 16:04 ( . )

On 01/18/2005 @ 11:15, Bow wrote :
:Anyone have any suggestions for low wattage subsitutes for EL84's?
:
: I know in PP that run about 17 Watts, but is there any tube I can use in a EL84 PP design to lower the output wattage under 5 watts?
:
: Thanks


Way back to the original question...apparently the answer is ...yes.
--

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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:Bow (guest: search)
Date: Thu, Jan 20th, 2005 @ 19:48 ( . )

On 01/20/2005 @ 16:04, Bob S. wrote :
:On 01/18/2005 @ 11:15, Bow wrote :
: :Anyone have any suggestions for low wattage subsitutes for EL84's?
: :
: : I know in PP that run about 17 Watts, but is there any tube I can use in a EL84 PP design to lower the output wattage under 5 watts?
: :
: : Thanks
:
:
: Way back to the original question...apparently the answer is ...yes.
: --
:
--


Thanks Bob...

;^)

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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:Mark S (guest: search)
Date: Thu, Jan 20th, 2005 @ 21:05 ( . )

On 01/20/2005 @ 19:48, Bow wrote :
:On 01/20/2005 @ 16:04, Bob S. wrote :
: :On 01/18/2005 @ 11:15, Bow wrote :
: : :Anyone have any suggestions for low wattage subsitutes for EL84's?
: : :
: : : I know in PP that run about 17 Watts, but is there any tube I can use in a EL84 PP design to lower the output wattage under 5 watts?
: : :
: : : Thanks
: :
: :
: : Way back to the original question...apparently the answer is ...yes.
: : --
: :
: --
:
:
: Thanks Bob...
:
: ;^)
--
Hey Bow, I'm getting in kind of late on this discussion and I know you are looking for low watt but my P-P 6AQ5 (6005) "Ai' Caramba" is a really killer sounding little amp. I'm letting my "son" use it right now to do small room gigs and rehersal. I've got a acrobat file of it that Matt's girlfriend made around here somewhere. Pretty simple, two stage pre w/LTPI, NFB, 2 knob control.

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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:Bow (guest: search)
Date: Thu, Jan 20th, 2005 @ 21:27 ( . )


: --
: Hey Bow, I'm getting in kind of late on this discussion and I know you are looking for low watt but my P-P 6AQ5 (6005) "Ai' Caramba" is a really killer sounding little amp. I'm letting my "son" use it right now to do small room gigs and rehersal. I've got a acrobat file of it that Matt's girlfriend made around here somewhere. Pretty simple, two stage pre w/LTPI, NFB, 2 knob control.
--


Hey Mark!

Thanks fo rteh input!

Rich Stevens and I are actually dreaming this one up together.. any help you can provide would rock!

Thanks!

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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:Mark S (guest: search)
Date: Thu, Jan 20th, 2005 @ 21:57 ( . )

Scanned this thread...didn't see your address anywhere.

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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:Bow (guest: search)
Date: Thu, Jan 20th, 2005 @ 22:31 ( . )

kd5kznATsbcglobalDOTnet ;)

Thanks sir!

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'EL84's In Push Pull... any low watt substitutes?'
Author:marko (guest: search)
Date: Thu, Jan 20th, 2005 @ 22:38 ( . )

If you can find 6ar5 they worked well for me in a heavywatter. p/p would get you around 5 to 6 watts

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